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 WCC-Olin Box Codes (What I think I know) 
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am
Posts: 1804
Location: Atlanta GA
Post WCC-Olin Box Codes (What I think I know)
As most of you know, I have been working recently on sorting out box codes for various manufacturers on what I had hopefully called the "IAA Forum Box Date Code Project". I posted my initial efforts on http://gigconceptsinc.com/IAA-Forum-Box-Research.html,
but got almost no input so have let the project go for a while and only worked it in the background. I had pretty good information from the IAA Journal for Kynoch and Dominion, and some information from d'Artagnan on the Forum for Olin, but the Olin material d'Artagnan didn't project back accurately. Recently I have been working to see what I could sort out the the results are below.

D'Artagnan's provided the following based on his comparison of boxes and their purchase dates:
He has determined that Winchester ammo lot numbers on the boxes have included the manufacture date encoded within. The date is contained in a LL## group, where L is a letter and # a number, making up or included in the lot number impressed into the box tab. Numbers preceding the LL## probably equate to the production line. The First letter is the Year Code and the second letter is the Month Code. The month codes run A-N skipping I and J.

The following are some examples from Olin boxes:
30UA61 = Date code of UA61 = 16 January 2003 (9mm Luger)
022VK30 = Date code of VK30 = 03 September 2004 (9mm Luger)
71WM40 = Date code of WM40 = 04 November 2005 (380 Auto)

He also sorted out the years 2000 - 2009:
Quote:
d'Artagnan on IAA Forum
2000 R
2001 S
2002 T
2003 U
2004 V
2005 W
2006 X
2007 Y
2008 B
2009 C
The second letter is the month:
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
A B C D E F G H K L M N

Note I and J are apparently skipped

The two numbers following are the numerical date, but reversed. Examples:
10 = 01, 51 = 15, 42 = 24


I started with a few data points I could add. I had the box shown on Thread viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7737 which was dated many years ago by an expert as 1935. I also had PGU-19/P box with cartridges dated 82 and a code of 16TG80(8Jul82) so I knew that T=1982. That meant that the character set used for the year was 20 characters long since T='82 and '02. That meant that 6 of the characters had been dropped. The work by d'Artagnan identified two of these as Z and A.

My next step was to list all the letters in the left column (except A & Z) and enter next to each the dates I had on headstamped loads and those which d'Artagnan had confirmed (center column). Then I added a column on the matrix of all the year codes I had on boxes-even though the headstamps were undated so I couldn't precisely date the box. With this information I added the possible dates in the far right column. The result is below.

Quote:
Dated Undated
T 82 Dated 1982
U 03 d'Art 1983
V 04 d'Art 1984
W 05 d'Art 1985
X 06 d'Art 1986
Y 07 d'Art 1987
B 08 d'Art 1988
C 09 d'Art 1989
D Skip/90
E Skip/90/91
F X 90/91/92
G Skip/91/92/93
H Skip/92/93/94
I Skip/93/94
J Skip/94
K 35 & 95 1995
L X 1996
M X 1997
N X 1998
O Skip
P X 1999
Q Skip
R 00 d'Art 2000
S 01 d'Art 2001
T 02 d'Art 2002


Three things come out of this data:
1. Between C & K there are two ltrs skipped
2. Between N & R there are two ltrs skipped
3. P must be 1999 since only one letter can be used between N & R and P is confirmed to exist so it must be 1999

So there is where the research by d'Artagnan and I stands.

What is needed now is for people to check their Winchester and Western boxes to see which of the year codes D, E, G, H, I, J actually exist on boxes.

The boxes using these codes could date from any of the following period;
Winchester or Western boxes: 1970-1974, 1990-1994
Western Boxes: 1930-1934, 1950-1954 (perhaps 1910-1914 but my early boxes lack codes)

Please check your Winchester and Western Boxes in these periods and let me know which of the year codes exist.

The boxes should have two letters together followed by two numbers. The year code is the first letter in the two letter group. Ignore other single letters in the code. There may be other stuff on the box flap but that is probably just identifying the production line or whatever.

A code of EB 61 would be an "E" year code and of interest. So would any of the following codes; A3EK11 (year code is E), 58DB42 (year code is D), F8GG51 (year code is G), 9HF21C (year code H).

I suspect one of the missing letters is I since it is easily confused with 1 so perhaps just a few of the missing codes will narrow down the story. If there is a code for a round with a dated headstamp, than it will make it a lot simpler. Since the month codes d'Artagnan sorted out from his studies skip I and J these may also be the codes skipped in the year codes but we can't be sure with the info available.

If you have boxes with any of the relevant codes, please let me know. Please provide the entire code and a description or picture of the box label and if available the headstamp (typed out is OK).

I have my latest guess at the date list, assuming that I and J are skipped as they are in the month codes, posted on my website at http://gigconceptsinc.com/IAA-Forum-Box-Research.html

Please post your info or send it to me by email.

Cheers,

Lew

_________________
Lew Curtis
Always looking for 9x19mm cartridges, boxes and DATA!!!
Check http://gigconceptsinc.com for books on cartridge-info on 9x19mm-Updated 25 July 2012---9mm German WWII Cartons & Cases
USAF 1960-1996---Retired
IAA since 1965 ECRA since 1967


Last edited by Lew on Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:16 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:58 am
Posts: 270
Location: Europe
Post Re: WCC-Olin Box Codes (What I think I know)
Lew,

Shown this in another thread as well. I can't make out the code layout on this particular Winchester box:

Image


Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:41 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am
Posts: 1804
Location: Atlanta GA
Post Re: WCC-Olin Box Codes (What I think I know)
The format here is Month-Year-Day so this is 22 Dec 53 or 43, or 33 depending on the box style. Hard to tell without knowning the box style since the early Winchester box year codes repeat every 10 years,

Lew

_________________
Lew Curtis
Always looking for 9x19mm cartridges, boxes and DATA!!!
Check http://gigconceptsinc.com for books on cartridge-info on 9x19mm-Updated 25 July 2012---9mm German WWII Cartons & Cases
USAF 1960-1996---Retired
IAA since 1965 ECRA since 1967


Last edited by Lew on Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:35 pm
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Peoples Democrat Socialist Republik and Casino Empire of Maryland
Post Re: WCC-Olin Box Codes (What I think I know)
Lew--
I think I've evidence to get us back to perhaps 1983, but certainly to 1988, using the system you described, including a year E.
I've 4 small "Made in USA" (but no Winchester or Western or Olin)/cardboard tray 1-up 1-down/Olin-Winchester East Alton, Illinois ZIP address boxes:
9MM Q4172 lot 11CG52V (over) 014
9MM Q4172 lot 71GA52 (over) 018 026
380 Auto Q4206 lot 83FK10 (over) 069
380 Auto Q4206 lot 83BD12 (over) 65
This last box has a printer's date wheel with 88 over the wheel, which is missing the 1, and in the middle of the wheel is 207. I figure this box was printed in January 1988 by printer 207, whoever that is. Likely the lot means 380 Auto line 83, 21 April 1988.
As for year E, I have a Winchester X9MMSHP box/red plastic tray with foam insert/Winchester East Alton, Illinois ZIP address lot 26EB60 (over) 76. Also a similar Winchester Ranger RA9MMJHP box lot 76DC70 (over) 26, which gives us years B, C, D, E, F, and G; B equaling 1988. The Ranger box has a date wheel missing the 1 and 207 in the middle but no year indicated.
I also have a Winchester X9MMSHP box/red tray foam insert/Winchester-Western Division East Alton, Illinois ZIP address lot 88UK92 (over) 20 30. It has a date wheel missing the 1, 2 and 3, over St Louis-82; indicating to me it was printed in March 1982. A lot number with year U should indicate 1983, and the box would have to have been printed earlier, in this case over a year earlier.
Now for the bad news. I also found a Winchester 9mm X9LP box/red tray foam insert/Winchester Group East Alton, Illinois Zip address lot 10VL99 (over) 29 35. The 99 part is crystal clear. --d'Artagnan


Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:23 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:58 am
Posts: 270
Location: Europe
Post Re: WCC-Olin Box Codes (What I think I know)
Lew,

Thanks. That would probably make it 1952.

Photos in this thread, the box is identical to the one you posted there.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7739


Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:36 am
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Location: Peoples Democrat Socialist Republik and Casino Empire of Maryland
Post Years H, K, and M
Lew--
I got serious and dipped into my strategic reserve last night. Came up with five more boxes, all with the Winchester East Alton Il ZIP address, most with printing dates.
1. 9mm Q4172 lot 24HH90 (over) 56, (printer) Riverwood International K-7113, 4/94
2. 9mm Q4172 lot 88HF50 (over) 30 33, Riverwood International K-7113, 4/94
3. 45 Auto Q4170 lot 76HG11 (over) 26, (printer) 207 (no date wheel)
4. 45 Auto Q4170 lot 034MB10 (over) 27, Riverwood International K-9104, 9/96
5. 45 Colt X45CP2 (W-W headstamp) lot 86KM72 (over) 142 15, Riverwood International K-7662, 12/94
Conveniently, that makes year H=1994, year K=1995, and year M=1997. If you have a recent year L box, that would be 1996.
--d'Artagnan


Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:15 am
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am
Posts: 1804
Location: Atlanta GA
Post Re: WCC-Olin Box Codes (What I think I know)
dArtagnan, you have done it!!!!

Find an "E" dated box reduced the possibilities a good deal. that meant that "H" could have only been a 1992, 1993 or 1994 date. By showing with the print date wheel that the H coded boxes were printed in 1994, you showed that he H code must have been 1994 or later date (if the box were used the year after printing). This confirms that H is 1994 and that I & J are the last two skipped letters we are looking for.

That means that the Western/Olin listings on http://gigconceptsinc.com/IAA-Forum-Box-Research.html are correct back to the 1930s at least.

Well Done!!!

Lew

_________________
Lew Curtis
Always looking for 9x19mm cartridges, boxes and DATA!!!
Check http://gigconceptsinc.com for books on cartridge-info on 9x19mm-Updated 25 July 2012---9mm German WWII Cartons & Cases
USAF 1960-1996---Retired
IAA since 1965 ECRA since 1967


Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:58 am
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 am
Posts: 1804
Location: Atlanta GA
Post Re: WCC-Olin Box Codes (What I think I know)
Need some more help with the codes on the early boxes.

My earliest Western Boxes (with 1920 print dates on label) illustrated below have codes of S24D and S26D which is not the standard format but if these were a Year-Day-Month format which seems likely then they would be 24 Apr 1921 and 26 Apr 1921 if the Day code was not reversed.
Image

John Moss also has one of these early green boxes codes which has the code ??2K (first two digits not readable) which is still consistent with a code format of Year-Day-Month.

John also has a the blue and yellow box with the red script Western (illustrated below) with the code 70SD12 which is the standard Western code and converts to 21 April 1941 (SC12) so the code style must have changed in the 20 years between 1921 and 1941. As you can see my only box is ratty. If you have one to spare (sell or trade) please let me know.

Image

If anyone has examples of other Western boxes of either the green style, or the blue & yellow style, or any intermediate style (in any caliber) I would greatly appreciate knowing the box codes and the box style.

Cheers,

Lew

_________________
Lew Curtis
Always looking for 9x19mm cartridges, boxes and DATA!!!
Check http://gigconceptsinc.com for books on cartridge-info on 9x19mm-Updated 25 July 2012---9mm German WWII Cartons & Cases
USAF 1960-1996---Retired
IAA since 1965 ECRA since 1967


Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:28 pm
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